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Talk:Propaganda

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Congregatio de propaganda fide; propaganda is a future participle, meaning that which ought to be propagated.

The etymological nominal definition for propaganda reside in the latin word "propaganda", meaning "that which ought to be propagated" (cf. supra 2nd paragraph), that term is the future participle of the transitive and reflexive latin verb "propâgare" (to propagate) the which it means "to multiplify by generation or another way of reproduction" or, in a figurative sense, "to extend, to prolong or to increase something or its effects".

Some synonymical nominal definitions for propaganda could be "to disseminate", "to diffuse", "to spread", etc.

A sort of descriptive real definition for propaganda is evolving yet in this free encyclopedia.

The essential real description belongs to the realm of the Metaphysics.

About the origins of the contemporary use of the word "propaganda", those can be traced back to the Reformation. The Catholic Church found itself struggling to maintain and extend its hold in non-Catholic countries. A Commission of Cardinals was set up by Pope Gregory XIII (r. 1572-85), charged with spreading Catholicism and regulating ecclesiastical affairs in non-Catholic lands. A generation later, in 1622, Gregory XV made the Commission permanent, as a sacra congregatio de propaganda fide, tasked to manage foreign missions and financed by a `ring tax' assessed on each newly-appointed cardinal. The first official propagandist institute was therefore a body charged with improving the dissemination of a group of religious dogmas. The word `propaganda' came to be applied to any organisation set up to spread a doctrine; then it was applied to the doctrine itself which was being spread; and lastly to the methods employed in the dissemination.

Please visit these web sites:

This site created by Aaron Delwiche, doctor in communications from the University of Washington, is inspired in the legacy of the Institute for Propaganda Analysis (IPA). http://www.propagandacritic.com

Article "Powers of Persuasion (Propaganda)" by David Welch. http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m1373/8_49/55481498/p1/article.jhtml?term=%22Powers+of+Persuasion+%28Propaganda%29%22

And please, read this book:

Thompson, John B. "Ideology and Modern Culture: Critical Social Theory in the Era of Mass Communication". Polity Press, 1990

Sent by Luis from México.

D

-- Propaganda is very common in totalitarian systems. I can confirm this by observation and monitoring for the last 30 years. There was propaganda in Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, China, North Korea, Cuba, and the Communist countries of Eastern Europe. The right-wing Salazar dictatorship and Franco's Spain were also propagandists. The difference tends to be that dictatorships use propaganda in extensive domestic as well as foreign coverage. When there is no free discussion of ideas, there still has to be something to fill the airwaves and billboards. -- GABaker, 23 Oct 02

Propaganda, like censorship, is generally most extreme within totalitarian systems, and probably can be expected to increase, or decrease, as a government becomes more, or less, despotic.

I've removed this from the main page, because it's a controversial claim, which is not attributed or supported. I think propaganda techniques are used very commonly outside totalitarian governmental systems.

In fact most of the propaganda I see comes from large corporations. All you need to do is take some time looking at advertising, and you'll be able to find examples of nearly all of the propaganda techniques explained on the main page. Moreover, the use of film, radio, television, and print media in a concerted way -- which is typical of a large scale propaganda campaign -- is also characteristic of a major advertising blitz. MRC

http://www.propagandacritic.com

(formerly was: http://carmen.artsci.washington.edu/propaganda/home.htm)

This e-place was created eight years ago, when the world-wide web was in its infancy, the propaganda site is inspired by the pioneering work of the Institute for Propaganda Analysis (IPA). From 1937 to 1942, the IPA was dedicated to promoting the techniques of propaganda analysis among critically-minded citizens.

The author, Aaron Delwiche, holds a doctorate in communications from the University of Washington and a B.A. in political science from the University of California at Berkeley. He is currently employed as a lecturer in the Department of Communication at the University of Washington.

Sent by Luis from México.

We need to come to a consensus on the first few paragraphs. They keep getting deleted and added. I think starting with the assertion that all propaganda is lies and is used only in war is self-evidently false. I think we should start the article with the lines which currently read "In the broad sense of the term..." Jfeckstein 15:35, 11 Aug 2003 (UTC)

We now have two interestingly contrasting images of Saddam Hussein: one Iraqi, one American. -- The Anome 14:56, 15 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Propaganda flyers

Please do not use altered historic documents. If you do not want the Nazi-Text to be readable, do not use this example in the first place. Manipulating the image so that the original text becomes unreadable (without even mentioning it) is not an option: It is dishonest and leaves the reader uncertain what the image actually is all about (it only shows two buildings, after all). It would be cool if someone could contribute a better/clearer/more authentic sample of Nazi propaganda? 62.227.161.132 11:53, 3 Jan 2004 (UTC)

• I agree. What about this one? It is from the German Historical Museum, but we can probably not use it as "fair use". -- Stw 11:37, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I miss the satement of some basic facts, such as the reference to what is propagated by propaganda.

Now as we all hold beliefs and have ideas that may not be chrystalised as opinitons or value statements, yet by being exposed to various verbally formalised propaganda, we gradually develop and dislose our own reaction. Depending on the strength of our convictions any propaganda aimed at us to change our attitudes will focus on conversion/reassurance, thr former of which is only likely to take place, if we are uncertain and not determined enough about our ways of seeing the world and its chunks, whether confessing them verbally or not.

Living in a world, which is as hugely complex as it is, most of the propaganda that we experience is about making us like or dislike something: a brand, a place, an object, a person, etc. By inducing the people to like/dislike something there is a constant pressure around to take sides in the social world, get organised and to join forces, as opposed to relating to it just like non colonising animals do (focus on your own world, ignore distant worlds).

Now this information on likes/dislikes is then used to motivate/manipulate the whole society in line with the objectives of invesment with a good ROI, by making use of public opinion polls and other paraphernalia of PO research plus intelligence/surveillance. This is possible by exploiting the natural inclination in humans to imitate and copy all sorts of things, patterns of acts and behaviour included. Under such circumstances all the communications, unbiased or otherwise, function as propaganda and as agents to modify and synchronise individual behaviour with results measured and felt on a mass scale. The differences in style and other aspects, that may range from subtle to enorurmous do not change the overall outcome of the intended (and probably indiscardable)presence of control. Apogr 10:11, 9 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Cult propaganda is missing

• I miss propaganda by religious institutions and cults. I was under the spell of a charlatan guru Sathya Sai Baba for 9 long years.

Were rank and file Nazis liars?

• Another thing, that struck me is that the article said that the Nazis had no qualms about telling lies but the article mentions only Adolf Hitler as an example. I can think of one more clear example and this is Reinhard Heydrich but he didn't even believe in Nazism but was only interested in power. I don't doubt that Hitler and Heydrich told many, many lies but is it a fact that even rank and file Nazis told lies very easily? If so, where is the reference for this ? To me, it sounds more probable that quite a lot of Nazis were sincere but deluded by Hitler's and Goebbels' emotionalism, talks about national and racial superiority and threats. I even have my doubts about some high ranking Nazis like Albert Speer and Baldur von Schirach.

Let's not forget Walt Disney on the other side of the war, using Hitler's own images to American purpouses. I think you shouldn't forget that all parts of international conflicts tell "many, many lies".. - Sigg3.net 08:20, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Too Much Emphasis on deliberate deception

• My complaint about the Nazis is an example of my opinion that the article puts too much emphasis on deliberate deception at the expense of contagious illusions. Propaganda can run and can be done automatically when people suffer from a contagious illusiion

Andries

"Those novels were used for explicit propaganda such as the CIA secretly commissioned an animated film adaptation of Animal Farm in the 1950s. "

Can't parse that sentence... 217.211.131.17 09:55, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)

One could analyze the similarities among propaganda used by national leaders who want to start wars, such as the recent war in Iraq; the Spanish-American War; etc.

Walt Disney

My younger brother thought he was downloading a Donald Duck cartoon while the file infact turned out to be a Walt Disney WW2 propaganda cartoon clearly aimed at children. I've seen it myself and I find it appaling the way this cartoon portrais the Nazis, as zombies raised to die. First of all this propaganda isn't any more right than the Nazi propaganda (which is alot better as such) and second of all it is aimed solely at children. Of course it is a few fun sections of it, like the animated Hitler going berserk, but considering the situation around and the goal of this cartoon I find it very distasteful. If I'm able to watch it again, I'll write some more about it and probably add it to the Propaganda article. - Sigg3.net 13:23, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Injustice and Faint

...or may be the author simply misspelt "feign"? Mikkalai 19:34, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)

...or "feint"? Robert Southworth 22:50, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Statistics

Good point. I think this is a very common form of misleading people in the Netherlands. Andries 21:28, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)

George W. Bush has also be accused of it. For example in the post September 11, 2001 Terrorist Attacks NYC, he was accused of encouraging (forcing?) the EPA to change their interpretations of air quality data to ease public fears rather than show concerns. --zandperl 23:18, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)

yes, Hitler had some good quotes about propaganda. I was amazed to read it in Mein Kampf. Andries 22:15, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)~

When I studied for examen facultatum (a small, Norwegian introduction course to the philosophy of science) we worked alot with Hitler. The 20-35 first pages were about propaganda and psychological experiments, and spread evenly among these pages you could read excerpts from Men Kampf. - Sigg3.net 08:18, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Problem with current definiton

I might define it as "one-sided advertising to promote a cause, rather than a commercial product." Perhaps the "one-sided" aspect can be determined at the time of the propaganda by seeing how much opposition there is. I think typically it is socially frowned upon to object to propaganda. We might say rather than deliberately misleading, that propaganda "deliberately depicts the facts from one point of view." The current definition on this page may be POV, in that it implies that all propaganda is intentionally malicious, which is not always the case. --zandperl 23:11, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)

The current def does NOT imply maliciousness. It says exactly what you two mean: one-sidedness (with fat chance of deception and lies). Further, "propaganda" has three participants: "propagandist", "propagandee", and "observer". Even if the first two sincerely believe, it still may remain propaganda. (If the observer believes as well, then... do you remember that phylosophical puzzle about the tree that fell in the forest where no one could hear it falling?) Mikkalai 23:24, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)

As for the "difficulty to know", that's the very goal of propaganda, otherwise it would make no sense to bother. Mikkalai 23:27, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Propaganda does not need to be "one-side or untrue. What makes it propaganda is that it a) be systematically propagated, and that it is b) done for the purpose of advancing their cause. See the American Heritage Dictionary. Note that falsehood is not a part of the definition; not even bias, not even half-truth.

1. The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause. 2. Material disseminated by the advocates or opponents of a doctrine or cause: wartime propaganda.

The etymology of the word literally means "that which ought to be propagated," and, of course, if you look up the origins of the word "broadcast" it refers to a way of sowing seed. Dpbsmith 23:37, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Once again, First, the phrase "serving an agenda" says the same as yours "reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause", only a bit slangish, I admit, but hits the nail directly. Second, "specific type of message presentation" phrase covers your (1) and (2). Third, that wikipedia explicitely says "fail to paint a complete picture", is just a clarification of the "First". Fourth, etymology can play tricks with attempts to understand the meaning. As a non-native English speaker I went through great pains to learn this :-) Unfortunately, the meaning of the term is indeed tilting into negative, we have to deal with this. Mikkalai 00:25, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

And Fifth, what you just did, is an excellent example of propaganda (of your POV): You write: Note that falsehood is not a part of the definition, and to confirm this, you conveniently omit a piece from the quotation from the American Heritage Dictionary, namely, "wartime propaganda" is actually written there as "the selected truths, exaggerations, and lies of wartime propaganda". Gotcha!!! Mikkalai 00:35, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

For what it's worth, on checking, I find that my print copy of AHD 3rd edition matches your quotation. What I quoted was from an online copy of [AHD 4th edition]. I quoted it correctly, without omission or distortion and no intent to deceive. I don't know whether the definition changed from AHD 3rd to AHD 4th, or whether the online edition of AHD 4th is different from the print edition. Dpbsmith 03:27, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Of course is is known that the word didn't intend to be negative. Hitler had Ministry of Propaganda. Stalin had Agitprop (Agitation and Propaganda). Surely they didn't intend to have something read as "Ministry of Lies". But again, the word communism was not "bad" one, too. Since many people began thinking that "propaganda" is bad word, so it became. That's the life of language, you know. Mikkalai 05:31, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Mikkalai, when I read the current version then I read from it that propaganda is always malicious. Andries 23:47, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I see it now; the overall article is definitely biased into malice. I was speaking about the very first definition, not about examples. Mikkalai 00:25, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I think where the current article first indicates a change from the neutral "message to serve an agenda" to the POV "malicous lies" is in the section titled "Kinds of Propaganda," second paragraph. Such a statment that the term is often more used in a negative way is ok in itself. But then in "Techniques of Propaganda Generation" every example given seems negative to me. I think this could be solved by one of three ways: (1) rewording the examples so they're all neutral; (2) indicating which are examples of the negative connotation of propaganda; or (3) giving additional examples which are more neutral.

Meanwhile, should we add a {{msg:NPOV}} note to the top of the page?

--zandperl 04:24, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Cuban propaganda

Please do! GABaker 18:56, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Consider it done. - Sigg3.net 08:20, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Played Backwards

... in which the radio program was recorded and played backwards over the air.

How to Get on Radio Talk Shows All Across America w/o Leaving Home		This Broad's Life: The Raucous, Riveting Autobiography of the Most Outrageous Radio Talk-Show Host in America Today		You Can't Say That : Common Sense From America's Number One Gay Radio Talk Show Host		How to Get On Radio Talk Shows All Across America
Talk Show Selects 1999: A Guide to the Nation's Most Influential Television and Radio Talk Shows		Talk Show Selects 1998: A Guide to the Nation's Most Influential Television and Radio Talk Shows (1998 Edition)		Talk Show Yearbook 2000: A Guide to the Nation's Most Influential Television and Radio Talk Shows (Talk Show Selects, 2000)		Conduct a National Radio Talk Show Tour Without Leaving Your Home or Office...Without Paying a Cent for Air Time (How to Make People Buy Whatever You)